Modding stuff.

Doppel Weapon-Switching.

Current negative aspects of the mod (system as a whole, not minor bugs):

1) You have to necessarily interrupt the action of the clone (excluding the summoning version).

2) You have to necessarily switch weapons with Vergil.

3) You have to necessarily do something to force models to change (simply switching to another weapon in the HUD is not enough). A JC, landing, moving, starting a move with the new weapon accelerate this, but again, it's imposed. Usually you can't simply switch weapons passively (HUD), switch doppel's weapons, and then continue with Vergil without having used that weapon at all.

4) You will necessarily change the position of the clone, forcing him to come to you.

5) If you switch weapons with Vergil and ONLY want the clone to move where Vergil was without using JFJCs, calling him will force a not necessarily desired weapon switch for the clone. And there are many instances where you either don't want a JFJC, or you can't do it because the inputs for the desired set-up don't allow it.

6) To summon the clone with a specific weapon, Vergil has to have equipped the same weapon. Conditioning set-ups in this aspect as well.

Negative aspects of the system I proposed (Up, Left and Right from the d-pad would be for each weapon, and doppel would appear with the desired weapon immediately; pressing again the same d-pad button would call doppel next to Vergil as usual):

Basically, the synchronization levels would be gone, thus we need to analyze what they provided...

1) Buffering more multi-hits for moves like Yamato combo C, which would allow Vergil to store a few during a longer move, and then do something else himself while doppel spams more multi-slashes holding the enemy. Same could be applied with stinger>million stabs.

This is something utterly specific. To the point that I have used it only one time until now despite all my experimentation with doppel. In all my set-ups/combos.

2) Changing the synch can change the ground or aerial string of doppel without changing the string of Vergil, or forcing him to wait longer to create a pause for the input. Example: melee, melee on the ground wouldn't require a pause for Yamato combo B if we switch to the most delayed synch and press fast.

I used this function a few more times, but nothing crazy and there are workarounds, like trying to make the shortest pause possible for some set-ups instead of switching to the delayed synch, something I have used as well. There aren't always workarounds, but one can adapt the set-up enough or use the tech another player found to skip one step from a string.

3) Even more specific set-ups... Like DT stinger in the air with Vergil while doppel is on the ground>ground trick cancel. Only with the delayed synch doppel would catch the enemy with rapid slash while Vergil remains on the origina side, because otherwise the clone would pass below too early (the enemy would be too high).

But even then, one could do for example another well timed rapid slash (self-cancelable in SinDT) or catch the enemy with something else.

If we analyze both, the negative aspects of the system I propose are much more situational and there are some workarounds. Meanwhile forcing doppel always to interrupt his action and come to Vergil each time we want to switch his weapon has a much bigger and less avoidable impact.

For example, if I simply wanted to launch the enemy with doppel's upper slash (Vergil was behind or not close), then do rapid slash with Vergil to switch sides (upper slash has a good recovery if you don't cancel it with JFJC, so the clone would be unaltered to this point), and then use kick 13 with doppel from the other side while Vergil does something else, I can't.

And this is something relatively basic. You could change kick 13 for any other move with ME or Beo as well.

Trying to not sacrifice synch-levels:

1) We could sacrifice R2 or L2 (or R1/L2 if the player uses these for weapon switching) to switch synch levels, but this isn't convenient for fast JC strings, for some of the buffered reversals and for JdC techs using SinDT deactivation.

In some instances you want to do helmbreaker and JC it before it even hits in the air into something else for subtle positioning, for example, or JC normal form aerial stinger before it creates a knockback... Removing one of the inputs to switch weapons isn't convenient.

2) A face button. Not really convenient either because there are 4 crucial functions: trick, melee, instant SinDT (or taunt) and jump. And on top of that we have to hold melee quite often while using at the same time trick/jump. I wouldn't sacrifice a face button to switch synch-levels, let alone to put there doppel's weapon-switch (which by the way would also imply double-switching).

3) Touch-pad. I have personally taunt on it, others may have SinDT.

In both cases it's very valuable. More than synch-levels.

4) R3... It would take too much time to press it. It's almost like creating a pause for the input of doppel, unless you leave the controller with the left hand and use it to press R3...

Everything has some significant cons that I really think go above the functions of synch-levels. I don't really think some players wouldn't use taunts or instant SinDT for synch-levels.

My final suggestion: maybe consider my proposed system + an alternative script for people who want to keep synch levels. The secondary system would allow to switch synch-levels with R2/L2, R3 or some face button. Depending on what they want to sacrifice.

It's a pity we don't have more buttons on the controller, but yeah. We are too restricted.

JdC System.

I made a brief summary of JdC techs in 4 here.

The main handicap of 5's system is that you can't really do JdC cancel, which is the most crucial technique of all of them. As it allowed Vergil to cancel his moves in certain windows into JdC quickly.

In this tech air trick cancels the action, and then air trick itself is cancelled with a JdC.

There are some alternatives in 5:

- Non-Yamato move>Trick Up>Trick Action>JdC (or just trick up).

- Non-Yamato move>Summon cancel>trick up>JdC.

But not a single one of these comes all that close to what JdC cancel was in terms of refined ussage.

It's true that regular ground trick JdC may resemble Star Fall (away) JdC cancel from 4, but there are many other options that are gone, let alone the inertial variations with WS JdC.

The imitations in 5 not only don't look nearly as smooth and fast, but they also have other handicaps. Like forcing Vergil to go in normal form, forcing Vergil to go to the enemy (Non-Yamato move>Trick Up>Air Trick), or wasting one trick up in itself (you need a JC to restore trick up without touching the ground, even though I suppose you could mod 2-3 trick ups).

My suggestion:

- Please, consider trying to make air trick cancelable at any point with JdC like in 4.

- Try making JdCs chargeable from other weapons.

JdC cancel isn't based on pure charges but a glitch related to melee release. However, that isn't so bad to imitate it in 5 because the regular time to charge is relatively short.

This way we could, for example, do kick 13, hold, switch to Yamato, press air trick and release melee whenever we wanted.

With or without inertia, this would be very useful and crucial for Vergil 5.

I suppose it's pretty hard to achieve this without altering too much mirage edge (maybe charges of JdC while holding mirage edge will have bad interactions with round trip) or doppel's JdCs. But it may be worth trying.

Trick system itself.

- Already said many times, but air trick's recovery is way too slow. Not going extend this point because you are probably tired from hearing it.

- As I said above at some point, giving Vergil 2-3 trick-ups would be more balanced. Currently he needs necessarily a JC or touch the ground to reset trick up.

- I have talked about this already in some tweet. It may be interesting to have a ground trick going forwards like Dante's, and another one to go backwards, like Vergil's.

Especially if Dante's could still be cancelled with JdC.

This isn't so crucial/relevant though.

Overdrive.

We already talked about this one. But having a knockback with the default charge or completely replacing it with the final charge would be much better for enemy displacement. Just holding the enemy isn't that useful... Vergil already has plenty of hangers.

Doppel's Summon animation.

While launching the enemy and cancelling Vergil's actions is great, it takes way too long and can't be jump cancelled. It breaks the flow forcing a long pause.

We already talked about this topic anyway. Down (d-pad) could still be summoning doppel (in haste preferentially) as it's currently and with Yamato. While summoning with the other d-pad buttons=instant passive summon or at least a much faster animation. It doesn't even have to necessarily cancel Vergil's actions. Vergil can cancel his actions in different ways. One could summon doppel in the middle of a Star Fall while Vergil keeps going until he lands (for a subtle positioning of doppel in the air). Or in the middle of a DT Stinger.

If one wants doppel to appear next to him, then he can be summoned right after ground trick, air trick, etc., or plainly while Vergil is relatively still.

If it still cancels actions, it could be alright as well. Both systems would have pros and cons. The main point is removing the forced long animation from a crucial mechanic.

Kick 13 and Star Fall.

Keeping in mind extended kick 13 is a long move that would give a big window to do stuff with doppel, I consider it would be better to remove the holding restriction (we would always do the extended version simply by the initial input with backwards-forwards). One can cancel Kick 13 at any point in different ways anyway. While the benefit from not having to hold would be great.

For example, one could send the enemy with doppel towards the 2 final kicks with aerial stinger; or the opposite, doppel could do kick 13 while Vergil does something creative himself.

What I did yesterday with overdrive was simply possible because one can release and hold again in a brief window.

Another suggestion would be implementing the 2 final kicks alone, but I am sure this has been already suggested so I won't go in-depth. Also the extended version is still better for doppel usage in most cases.

Regarding Star Fall, I don't really think having to hold is the best, but for now I don't really have a suggestion I would consider necessarily better. In any case Star Fall's follow-up shouldn't depend on hitting the enemy in specific circumstances because it's a restriction that doesn't affect balance overall (while messing up interesting set-ups/making them too inconsistent/not allowing to use it for movement independently from the enemy).