Properly exposing Lloyd.

I didn't really want to waste my time again with this person, but it seems he keeps talking nonsense outside of his own server, and of course some people (generally newer players) are naive enough to believe it or get influenced by it.

Despite the more than obvious contradictions, slander or plain retardation.

Here is a small spoiler of the most recent BS:

Imagine making the rhetorical derogatory question who are you to one of the most respected members of the DMC community.

But this is nothing. Let's go step by step.

The Beginning.

It's hard to say when was the first time Lloyd insulted, mocked or was passive-aggressively hostile against other players in the DMC community. It was most probably even before this (late 2016/early 2017), but it's definitely a good base to get a notion of Lloyd's negative traits (even if he has adjusted his official views on Trainers and Mods because he started using them himself).

Reading the highlighted parts should be enough to understand what I mean with hostile passive-aggressive attitude.

The topic itself isn't even the most relevant one, and this isn't by any means the worst Lloyd has said or has done.

What should stay clear from this part:

- Years ago Lloyd was a console non-turbo player focused on S ranking and leaderboards, before jumping to PC and focusing more on combo-making (still without Turbo, which I repeat because it will be relevant).

- Lloyd not only considered that console players didn't get enough attention, as it's harder to get better on console. He used terms like mod-frauding and implied many players would be nobodies if it wasn't because of Trainers, which is far beyond the version he explained to other people when talking about this first conflict. And I mention this because explaining some hilariously twisted versions of past events to new mirrors (remember this term), or more recent ones, is one of Lloyd's favorite hobbies.

- And the most relevant... Not a single one of the players Lloyd currently hates (and mentions explicitly or more indirectly every time he vents with some not really new BS), attacked him first or out of nowhere. If you think otherwise, show evidence. You won't find any.

Did we automatically cancel Lloyd?

No, we didn't. I myself have had conflicts in the past and made statements about other players that I consider wrong. Most probably others regret some statements they made about me as well.

Even now we still make mistakes from time to time. Sometimes I am way too harsh when mentioning other people. Nobody in this community is perfect, but we try to grow from our conflicts and keep it as friendly and welcoming as possible.

Sometimes it works, and in Lloyd's case... It definitely just doesn't because of his own fault.

Lloyd didn't only have one chance... He had plenty of them to change his attitude.

Which brings us to:

Lloyd's first second Chance, and even further Chances.

Lloyd and I met some time after the incident with Chaser because of a YouTube comment he made in one of my videos (2018). We started talking and progressively became friends.

After inviting him to my server, he met Turtle, Geno, nino, Lightdasher and others who welcomed him with open arms. To the point that they supported him sharing the most of his clips. Turtle did even a collaborative video with him.

At first we didn't know the real dimension of his ego's fragility, his envy, his egoism, etc. Passive-aggressive comments and mockery of all kinds just started popping up cyclically, while people progressively had less and less patience.

One of the first cases: Terru shared Platinum's latest article by that time. Lloyd mocks it and proudly states he didn't even open it.

Passive-aggressive nonsense again about PC/Console BS, even though by this time he claimed that he had changed:

Just some examples of many. You want more?

Read a bit DK's thread with examples not only from my server, but also from streams, YT comments and other servers. And yet he intentionally ignored the nastiest ones (to avoid indirect harm to other people).

Chris Taylor was a smash player who wanted to play DMC5 and Smash Ultimate before dying from terminal cancer. Sadly he died before being able to play DMC5 and this motivated Millz to organize his first charity event to support cancer research.

Some of Lloyd's repugnant contributions about this topic by that time:

Lloyd will gladly explain very weird versions of this, implying it was taken out of context and he didn't mean that Chris was a nobody and people shouldn't care that much about him.

What Lloyd won't tell you is that this isn't from my server. These are DMs with his friend that he shared in my server as screenshot because HE thought they represented HIS opinion about the topic (charity Stream/Chris Taylor). This is why the quality of this image is also worse.

He not only implies again the same, but also makes it about himself. Lloyd's more recent attempts to twist this only further confirm the same interpretation, excepting for one contradiction that we will see later.

Here he talks about how he watched the stream for Chris and saw Millz dressed as a woman, and how he even danced like a monkey on his bed. He further explains that it looked for him as if people were celebrating Chris's death instead of honoring him.

Imagine laughing at the expense of Chris after the comment of his friend, yet trying to give lessons about how to honor him...

Then he victimizes himself saying something like: if I were mentioned in such a stream, it would have been something like the cancer was removed, or some shit like that.

Imagine seeing a stream about someone who died from terminal cancer and still focusing on yourself, and how people would or wouldn't do a stream if it was you. Or how they would maybe even celebrate your death, implying the real cancer was removed...

The last 2 lines: I am glad that (luckily) I am not asked to participate in such projects. I detest this fanbase where people act as if the world was created with Guard Flying. It annoys me too much that this community sustains thanks to some disabled individuals.

Pflegepfälle Stufe 3 is a type of category for people with disabilities in Germany. He most probably refers to DK's (and others') Carpal Tunnel. Even though I am not totally sure if it's not just a more general insult towards any prominent player who couldn't stand his BS.

(Remember this part about scrubs and acting nicely, because I will mention it later).

Obviously I refuted every nonsense he said after such comments. I explained why Chris didn't need to be popular or famous to become an icon for this cause, motivating the community to do something positive. I explained as patiently as possible how the money was for cancer research, to prevent or minimize further deaths because of this terrible illness. I explained why his passive-aggressive jokes aren't just jokes. I explained why mocking Platinum's work that way was wrong. Etc., etc., etc.

I have spent probably hundreds of hours talking with Lloyd about his behavior and why it's sometimes wrong, how he could change, how he could identify his own patterns and stop before he says something wrong and even hurtful. How he could become a better person.

Of course I lost my temper sometimes, but who wouldn't.

My point with all this is that Lloyd was never discriminated out of nowhere. Even Chaser himself tried to be friendly with him and suggested to play Smash Ultimate together.

Lloyd had a really good damn chance to be a constructive and integrated member of this community despite his first conflict with Chaser. He had the support of respected players even after all this crap above, but obviously one by one, every single one of them cut any communication with him and stopped supporting him.

The only people who currently support Lloyd just don't know any of this, and/or they are extremely inconsiderate.

The first time I gave up with Lloyd was more or less when he made a comment like Laufende Zeitbombe to refer to Terrutas (who is from Israel). The literal translation is walking bomb. He added something like with stinky orange hands..., but I am not sure if it was in the same line or not. And it's not like it matters much.

And this was mainly after the rest. Not before.

What's more, since I didn't want to ban him, I asked him to leave by his own... Out of respect to what was our friendship. He only used this to spy in my server when I was sleeping using some old invitation. Sometimes he did it himself, sometimes one of his friends (obviously after realizing this we deleted any old invitation to my server).

The cycles.

When I insist in the concept of cycle in different ways it's for a good reason.

Lloyd wasn't totally immune to my attempts to help him, and even the attempts of others. There were situations where he clearly admitted he was wrong:

You would understand better this example reading a summary of his Turbo-NonTurbo paranoia.

And there have been other instances where he admitted (without the usual BS excuses) the wrongdoing.

Actually one of the exercises that we worked on was a list of his mistakes. Done by himself and re-analyzed by me. With the objective to recognize patterns and signals in his own feelings and behavior, to identify and stop the repetition more actively. In the best version of that list there was still some BS, but there were also genuine observations that he did himself, recognizing and admitting properly his mistakes.

Lloyd is aware of the difference between love and hate, as basic feelings; between being genuine and friendly while disagreeing with somebody, or passive-aggressive (to some degree); and he can even recognize more concrete aspects of his wrong behavior (again, only to some degree).

But because of the complexity of our design, being simply aware about them doesn't guarantee anything per se. It only helps.

As it doesn't guarantee anything knowing why you fail a side-rave or reverse rave. While psychomotricity is another topic and involves different parts of our brain than this type of feelings, the principle of automatizations of learned processes still applies. The same way players can have bad habits in terms of psychomotricity that they can't fully control and it's utterly hard to rectify, Lloyd has them in terms of feelings, emotions and conservative beliefs.

I could help him to be self-aware for an instant, but that's not enough.

He could behave well after that for some weeks, yet at some point he would mess up again, just because some comment about Turbo appeared in his TL or because he remembered some old comment from DK mocking him that remained engraved in his brain (even if it was Lloyd himself who started), triggering once more the cycle with the same behavioral patterns.

Some people consider Lloyd a psychopath because of his troll patterns. For example:

This Walt was one of the ignorant morons who mocked DMC5's modders, implying they were tweaking the game to get some exploits and other nonsense that I don't even want to remember. Since Lloyd was resentful with many of us, he decided to troll saying all this crap, even if he doesn't believe it for the most part. Something he has admitted in a very literal way in DMs with me.

The thing is that he didn't do it as some apathetic mastermind to manipulate that poor dumbfuck and have some fun. He did it because it was the only way to feel relevant and mighty after getting slapped for his last BS by that time. It's like a kid who stamps after getting reprimanded.

Lloyd is most likely not a socio- or psychopath. As I said, he does understand the difference between basic feelings and feels empathy to some degree. Otherwise he wouldn't feel constantly hurt himself, to begin with, from perceiving what kind of person others in this community consider him to be.

His trauma and obsession with Recognition/Turbo/whatnot and fragile ego are just so pathological, that there is currently no amount of love or explanations about his wrongdoing that could make him change per se (in a long term and without messing up badly over and over again).

Even if he was the most popular player in the world, you would still see him tweeting idiotic defensive crap from time to time, because he would still perceive certain stimuli as threats to his status and self-image.

Simply because Lloyd was friendly after some talk with you it doesn't mean he has changed/his reputation is unfair/he has been unfairly cancelled/he isn't so bad/whatever.

Don't be naive. You are simply in a certain phase of the cycle, and you could most probably be used at some point as a mirror when he vents his twisted versions about past events and tries to firmly believe his own BS, sharing it with newer players or just people who are more prone to believe it too. Which is also a phase.

Remember his comment about ZeroMayCry and how he mentioned being nice to him and trying to help, but how he calls him scrub in the screenshot?

Lloyd is the most resentful creature I have met in my life. The fact that he is being nice to you doesn't mean he won't be insulting you next day if you somehow affect his self-image and/or disagree about some of his strongest and most idiotic beliefs about DMC and this community.

The level of his paranoia is such, that he thinks some people are 24h/7 mocking his gameplay for being turboless in my server, even if I explained to him 500 times it's not about his damn gameplay, but his behavior. And no, we don't even like to talk about Lloyd usually. We do it when some new BS comes out, and not precisely because of how pleasant it is...

Others and I are actually sick of him, which is why I write all this to have in one place many arguments for new players or anybody who doesn't know him and gets fooled in his cycles.

Lloyd didn't do anything wrong to me though.

It should be obvious that, if somebody hurts unfairly another person in some way 2 centimeters far from your own home, inviting him as if nothing happened simply because you personally were not hurt and/or it didn't happen inside your own house, is wrong.

An invitation to actually help both: the victim, to relieve his/her pain; and the aggressor, to re-educate him and prevent further harm... Would be totally different. No, I am not referring to this. I talk about simply and plainly inviting the aggressor, as though absolutely nothing happened, which not only doesn't stop the aggressor, but even reinforces his wrong behavior, as you indirectly show acceptance despite the aggression.

If you only care about wrongdoing when it's personally done to you, you have the ethics of a cactus.

You shouldn't need to read Kant to consider the most basic and rudimentary version of ethical universality (in English hilariously translated as universalizability, but that's even more pompous): don't behave in a way that couldn't be extrapolated to the rest.

While universality becomes utterly complex in moral dilemmas and complicated situations, in our case it should be pretty damn simple:

If we would always ignore wrongdoing just because it's not directed at us personally, every single victim or any person affected by the wrongdoing would suffer it without any help, and we ourselves would not get any help either in a similar situation. Thus it's not moral/not the most systematically efficient choice for the community and yourself.

However, here I am not even talking about doing something necessarily elaborated and hard (actively). Some people may not have the time; others may not speak English well enough to call out anybody/help; some may feel exhausted from other issues; etc. But one thing is to not necessarily invest the time and effort I am investing for this blogpost, or DK's thread... And another one to pretend anything Lloyd has done is irrelevant, and keep interacting and supporting him as if it's FINE to MUTHAFUCKING laugh at the expense of someone who died from cancer and even mock the people who organized a charity event because of him.

And yes, it happened 2 years ago, but that doesn't make it irrelevant and it's only one of many examples. Let alone the fact that he keeps saying crap about that charity event (this will be seen later if you keep reading).

OCW.

Only a few know this, but some months ago I did a server especially to solve a small conflict between Dany/Cuhrayzee and OCW. One of the issues was precisely the type of people they invited, and of course one of them was Lloyd.

I made an introduction and even a channel exposing Lloyd.

Blossom was the only one who got it fairly fast. Pizza got it after some time... And then we have Widow, who is the guy with the ethics of a cactus.

Still, Pizza and Blossom were enough to make the decision, understanding why Lloyd should be kicked. But...:

The most recent BS from Lloyd...

Addendum (edited): Blossom wasn't a moderator from OCW anymore when these screenshots were taken, only Widow was. And just in case it's not clear from what's written below, this server is not OCW's server itself.

Additionally, while I don't consider OCW totally innocent in this regard, nobody should blame all its members, as many didn't even know this.

Addendum 2 (edited): Pizza only knew Widow and Blossom were starting a new project on their own (since they didn't want to be supervised). He didn't know specifically Lloyd was going to be invited.

...

 So much understanding only to invite Lloyd to some other project.

I don't care it's not officially OCW regarding all my arguments and Lloyd's nonsense. It's also still related to at least 2 of the individuals I bothered informing about Lloyd.

Did Lloyd apologize for all his BS and behaved well all these months at least? No, he didn't.

He wrote an apology that was full with excuses and nonsense, he also made more passive-aggressive comments even in Twitter, let alone in DMs with me. Insulting Millz and his videos, using expressions like he thinks he is somebody, imagine criticizing me and then posting this (linking a video of Millz freestyling in 4, who explicitly said he is rusty, and without forgetting that Millz has never implied he is great in 4), etc.

But let's continue (showing only the most relevant screenshots)...

Imagine someone whose ego is fragil enough to get demolished by a fart, or any comment related to Turbo..., implying others are over sensitive.

1) At no point Dany implied that person was Lloyd.

2) He said it was from his server. I don't have evidence about this, but I would trust Dany if I had to choose a version, even though the easiest is to ask what exactly he meant and why. Maybe it was implicit this Hepo is actually Stylish Creature or another moron using another nickname.

What's important is how Dany has infinite reasons to not accept Lloyd, and how from this point forward Lloyd will be trying to focus on the most irrelevant part of Dany's message to trick others into thinking that people mistreat him/lie about him to make him look bad/worse than what he actually is...

...

The audacity of still asking who is Dany...

1) Imagine caring about Lloyd's wrongdoing only when it affects your own safety...

2) Lloyd loves to call it drama to make it look like something dull. Many times he likes to twist all the different examples I shared like people disagreeing or not liking each other. This is slightly more complex than not liking Lloyd, disagreeing about non transcendent topics or a vague cliché like drama.

This is about not being a piece of shit every now and then.

3) Notice how Widow insists in: EVERYONE is invited. Do you think I was invited? Or Millz?

No, because we called out Widow for his nonsense when justifying the presence of Lloyd in OCW's projects, in the server I did for the OCW-Cuhrayzee conflict.

It should be everyone, regardless of what he has done, right? Well, I called Widow imbecile with the empathy of a cactus when I lost my temper from refuting repetitive nonsense back then. But that's not a crime either, is it?

Just a small example:

It's just about gameplay/we only care about playing the games.

My reply:

You aren't just a bakery where Lloyd passes by to buy the daily bread and go home. You have a server that organizes events for different players of a community.

Interactions and cooperation in such activities are meant to reinforce/strengthen bounds between players in a healthy way, while enjoying the activity itself of doing combos/freestyle, etc.

You say yourselves in your description that it's meant to unify. There are values above the mere pragmatic function of inviting a bunch of people to some server and make them upload some clips to put them together in Sony Vegas.

Then the guy again repeated I dOn'T cArE aBoUt DrAmA, oNlY tHe GaMeZ.

And many more idiotic replies after having provided a lot of evidence and explanations as to why it's wrong to keep inviting Lloyd like if nothing happened...

But back to the point: would have Lloyd himself insulted Widow instead of others, calling him, for example, imbecile with the empathy of a cactus like I did... I really have serious doubts that he would have invited him.

Oh, but that means you don't like him and wouldn't want to participate anyway. Why would he invite you?

Why not? That was long ago and maybe I would like to join even regardless of not liking one of OCW's members.

Nah, sorry. This is egoism. You just care when you are the victim. And it's immature and immoral. It's not about inviting everyone. Just everyone who doesn't bother you specifically.

Nothing interesting here. Yanoji not knowing what he talks about, because he clearly doesn't know what Lloyd has done; and as I said, Lloyd making as if it was vaguely about some past disagreements or fights. More than obvious manipulation.

He knows himself nobody would call any discussion between me and Lloyd or between Lloyd and DK, or pretty much between Lloyd and any creature that isn't retarded a fight. It's more like an assassination.

Basically Lloyd saying nonsense and someone easily debunking it.

Many times you really just have to let him speak, and he does the job for you: a suicide.

Nothing interesting.

Instead of asking about what has Lloyd truly done in the past and why so many are sick of him, he focuses on that part of the message, which is what Lloyd wants; while Lloyd keeps using his vague terms, like I have my problems with DMC folks hurr durr.

No. It's not about having some pRoBLeMz. You were a PIECE OF SHIT with many people.

Last part is more victimization.

If you are the owner of a server and knowingly keep people who will probably do such things, yes, you are. Not for their actions, but yours.

1) Saying total nonsense about Dany, knowing very well that he would never do something like this.

2) Implying he is genuine, when he precisely acts nicely towards potential mirrors. But when the same mirrors call him out on his BS, he calls them scrubs.

3) Yanoji with more nonsense. If that thought isn't a harmless different opinion, but rather idiotic beliefs and habits that hurt others, obviously yes, you should exclude him (assuming he is helpless, which is precisely Lloyd's case).

This is why you don't include drug dealers in a school even if they just have a different thought...

And no, Lloyd's good actions in this community don't compensate all the crap he has done.

Not even close.

What's more. The motivation for such apparent good actions can be easily questioned after seeing how genuine he is.

More of Widow's cactus ethics.

More cactus.

In fact, even after asking Lloyd to leave my server (when I was too sick and hopeless), I kept repeating that he is a great player.

Others that he likes to bash don't mock his gameplay. At most they would make a cutting remark about Turbo to piss him off after 50 tones of BS from Lloyd's part. Which isn't mature, but it's humane.

Lloyd trying desperately to prove his nonsense, when Edwin is actually one of the very best Vergil players, and even Dante players.

This crap was debunked here, precisely in the blog that Lloyd tries to mock to feel less stupid, yet ironically further confirming his stupidity in the same paragraph repeating crap and nonsense that was already refuted.

The very first time I posted a combo MAD from Edwin in the blue DMC server 2 people commented that it looked like non-turbo in a negative way. One even stating now I am less impressed, because he didn't realize at first that the combos were without Turbo.

Secondly, it's not about punishment. Turbo simply looks better. If you still want to play without Turbo, then don't complain when people don't like it as much as Turbo, you mentally disabled turd.

Some old contradictory nonsense related to Turbo... I wasn't present when he did the first and second comment (most probably I was blocked by that time). But when I was present (third example) he didn't have the balls to say the same nonsense.

Edwin knows that sometimes he will get such criticism for playing without Turbo, but accepts it. On the other hand, yes, he is friendly and supportive. If you weren't retarded, you would make the 2+2 and understand why people share more his stuff than yours, understanding that it doesn't have to do with being oBjEcTiVe.

People can find your gameplay or combos great, but that doesn't mean it will be more important for them than you being a piece of shit. They aren't denying that you are a great player, they don't care about it and aren't motivated to share your stuff.

Lloyd himself has never called ZeroMayCry scrub in front of him when they were in good terms, and he has even told me personally that his stuff is pretty decent for the time he has been playing...

He hasn't mocked the gameplay of players who are much worse than DK, yet he has mocked DK's gameplay several times, especially his RG. Guess why. He simply detests DK. That's why.

In the same way people detest him, but for good reasons.

So much oBjEcTiViTy. He just makes exactly the muthafucking same: share stuff of people who support him (out of ignorance)... or at least don't detest him, and NOT share stuff or appreciate stuff from people who do detest him.

Get the fuck out with your objectivity.

Also... No one of them is better at anything than me.

This actually made me laugh.

One thing is to admit that you are a great player despite being a PIECE OF SHIT many times, and another one to imply you are AT LEAST as good as Edwin in any department. Same for nino, Turtle, Geno, DK and anybody you could currently detest, precisely because of the resentful piece of shit you are.

You may be at most better than some of them in specific areas, like obviously RG. Implying you are at least as good as them at anything is ridiculous. They are obviously better than you in specific areas. You don't even play Vergil, to begin with... But this is too dumb to even waste more time commenting it.

Not sure what Blossom implies here, but Edwin's combos would be utterly hard to replicate by any other Vergil player who plays with turbo (yes, even without Turbo).

He is extremely technical and precise, and on top of this his combos are pretty long. Precisely because of his high standards for combos.

I have seen his best Dante combos (he hasn't shared all of them on Twitter), and they are really hard as well.

Remember what I said about twisted versions and how there isn't really any other reasonable interpretation of that laugh because he shared it himself to express briefly what he thinks about the topic?

Remember what I said about the contradiction regarding Chris? He implied Chris was a nobody, but now it seems he was really famous and Millz used him for clout. Because, you know, Millz has probably nothing else to do than raising a charity event for cancer to get more followers and popularity.

Anybody with half a brain knows Millz was simply hyped as hell. Even Terru and the most critical players with DMC5, like myself, were hyped at some point. But Lloyd uses such a silly example to fuel his own paranoia, to try to manipulate anybody who is reading his nonsense, or a combination of both.

Yeah. It's totally not because you couldn't counter argument shit, and prefer to vent your BS somewhere else, where there could be someone naive or stupid enough to believe your nonsense. 

hahahahaha

Imagine Lloyd talking about moving on.

hahahahaha

Every single muthafucking time anybody talked again about him was because he said yet again some new nonsense somewhere about other players or the community.

Obviously Blossom's answer is correct.

Not much to comment about further attempts to strawman Dany.

Imagine Lloyd actually had the balls to do it instead of merely saying this as one of his jokes in some hidden server to vent...

(Not commenting all the thing about memes because it's way too stupid and obvious).

I think Blossom misspelled retarded.

The rest is even more stupid than this.

Conclusion:

No, it's not about some unimportant disagreements, beef, drama and other insipid terms that don't reflect the type of crap this person has done. Lloyd has systematically behaved like this for years.

Mocking other players, overreacting about any comment related to Turbo, trolling and trying to manipulate others, being egoistical and resentful enough to make a charity stream for cancer about himself, etc., etc. and fucking etc.

No, he isn't going to change just because you act friendly with him, support him sharing his stuff, or invite him to your projects, or even try to actively help him. And in the moment you call him out, he will most probably mock you as well at some point. Sooner or later. Just not necessarily in your face...

Inviting him only means to lose actually nice people like Dany and Lancelot...

No, freedom is not about letting everyone do whatever they want. It's much more complex and subtle, let alone ethics.

Lancelot and Dany definitely wanted to support this project. But they can't if there is a conflict with their basic principles and values if Lloyd joins. You aren't even letting everyone do whatever they want as it's an obvious paradox in a context where different behaviors can be mutually exclusive.

Preferences and exclusions are unavoidable. Trying to help Lloyd is even better, but it clearly just doesn't work. Sadly. I wish it would, but it doesn't.

And accepting him no matter what he does is the fucking opposite of helping (this community or even him alone).